Bishop Carlton Pearson Declares “Satan Does Not Exist”:
gospel | Mar 30, 2009 | Comments 82
Just when you thought that the controversy about “the Gospel of inclusion” had settled down and drifted into the pages of oblivion, it is appearing to be making a comeback.
On Thursday night of this past week, Bishop Carlton Pearson appeared on ABC’s Nightline and reaffirmed his theological position of several years ago about the “Doctrine of Inclusion“.
More specifically, Bishop Pearson declared that the historic Christian teaching which suggest that there is a Satan is false and erroneous. “Over the years, the church has borrowed many myths” suggested Pearson.
Bishop Carlton Pearson was joined by Deepok Chopra and faced off against Mark Driscoll and Annie Lobert to discuss whether or not Satan really exists.
A few years ago, Bishop CarltonPearson appeared before a panel of Pentecostal clerics, led by Bishop J. Delano Ellis, the Joint College of African American Pentecostal Bishops, who concluded that the teachings of Bishop Carlton Pearson represented modern day heresy. Since then, Bishop Carlton Pearson has gone from preaching to thousands to preaching to hundreds. The large mega-church building that he called home for so many years he has vacated and now conducts services in an Episcopal Church located in downtown Tulsa. It should be noted that the theology of the Episcopal tradition includes the Doctrine of Universal Reconciliation, which is the more historic name that of the Doctrine of Inclusion that Pearson now espouses.
The fact that the debate is airing on a major media outlet like ABC and a mainstream television program like “Nightline” serves as an indication of how fertile the topic is and to what degree the general public has an appetite for this kind of subject matter. In an expose a few years ago, Bishop Pearson closed his interview by saying “in the end you win”. One has to wonder if this is not an effort of Bishop Pearson to bring that prediction to pass.
We invite you to use the link listed below and watch the debate for yourself and then return to this blog page and record your comments. We are anxious to hear from you.
Source: Gospel Today Magazine
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Carlton Pearson is the anti-christ. Our whole doctrine is concerning evil versus good, and righteousness versus unrighteousness, and God versus Satan. Nothing else could bring harm to God’s creation with all the skill and deception that has caused war with everything that’s living. He’s anti-christ not because of an indictment of Jesus, but a declaration that His arche enemy does not exist. Satan was created beautiful, but chose to forsake his position in God and determine in his evil heart to de-throne God! Job’s affliction wasn’t about Job. Satan was fighting against God and trying to prove that salvation didn’t work and that the power of God did not exist. When Carlton Pearson and any other demonic antichrist becomes so misdirected it’s because they forget that it was God’s Word and power brought all things into existence and without Him does nothing consist that was made! It is this power that upholds all things and it’s that power of creation that has been converted to war against evil and Satan to the extent that they cannot stand. I urge all of Carlton Pearsons followers to leave him immediatly and flee to a house of God and seek the eternal God who will love you and deliver you from the influence of that evil leader. Carlton Pearson obviously don’t know that he is “a child of Satan!’
This is so sad. I remember when Bishop Pearson wasn’t talking
like he’s talking now. He is An Antichrist!!! Thank god 4 wonderful leaders like Bishop Ellis and the Late Bishop G.E
Patterson denounced him and warned the body of christ 2 b
ware!!!!! Just looking at this sad clipping U can see that Satan has !!!!!!!!!
taken Bishop Carlton Pearson over!!! He will continuely b in my prayers till god delivers him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JUST SAD~~~~~~~.
People criticizing this Bishop and calling him antichrist no doubt have good intentions, but judging (especially when they don’t even know the reasoning behind this Bishop’s stance) is a sign of a log in their eyes. Christians create this being, called satan, in their minds, and consequently give power to a fictitious being, and forget responsibility. Evil is so misunderstood. Evil is all that results in death, destruction, etc. and is not good. It is not a being or mysterious. If one thought of evil ever came into being, it would by default cause a chain reaction resulting in what we call “life”. We are responsible for all harm, destruction and disease on this planet. Doing actions that are evil i.e. harming onesself (whether violently, or by eating and drinking unhealthy), envy, boasting, polluting the earth, elevating onesself or someone else above anyone else, murder, etc. Those actions literally cause harm and are evil. Do good, love, take care of the earth we were given and let our lives be our worship. Until our lives through our actions and thoughts become our worship (by loving, taking care of the planet, gardening, letting go of fear, worries, anger, etc.) we are merely lukewarm and have lost our saltiness. The most critical central understanding of life is missing in such a person.
“Satan” comes from a word “Shaw-tan” in hebrew (hope I spelled that right) The word means “adversary” it IS NOT someone’s name. If it was, then Shaw-tan woud always be translated as “Satan” a proper noun..but it isn’t. In the story of Balaam’s donkey, it’s tranlated as “withstood” or “opossed” (Number 22:22) Now if “Shaw-tan” is someone’s name..why isn’t someone’s name in that scripture? What people have done, is assumed Satan is a beings name because that’s what we’ve been taught, but that’s not what the word means. A good start on the topic, is to try and find the story where “Lucifer” falls from heaven, and it’s not there. (Snd if you think it’s in Isiah 14 or Eziekiel 28..you’re wrong, read those paassages carefully, you’ll see they are talking about men.
I believe at some point Carlton’s eyes will be opened, and he will return to his roots. Carlton started down this road shortly after he got married. Not suggesting influence, only a time line. More focused on a woman, than the word. (?) I use to be a member of his congregation. Rather than criticize him, we all need to pray for him. For his restoration,(if any be overtaken in a fault). He vision is flawed; but his heart is in the right place. He is not the anti-christ. The inclusion message is just a recycled/mis-guided view. I have faith in God! He came to seek and to save that which is lost. Our brother is merely lost… the prodigal shall return.
I am so glad the Bishop now preaches the message the church started preaching in its first days….. Ultimate Rec. was and the truth of Scripture.
The majority of what we have believed and been taught about satan, lucifer, slew foot, belzibub(think I spelled that right), the devil, is a a creation of a desperate church hundreds of years ago that stopped preaching the gospel and then needed some kind of hook to keep people coming.
I am so glad that there are more of us preaching the unmoving, unchanging, unconditional, absolute, amazing, power of God, the father of matchless love.
It is outrageously weird that some fundamentalists call Christian universalism and open theism “heresies” (especially when one considers that open theism is more in keeping with the concept of a dialectical God found in Judaism—Judaism being the religion of Jesus !)
Nowhere do any of the verses of the bible state that universalism , nor open theism are any “heresies” .
As a NON-fundamentalist Christian , I will always hope and pray that eventually every person will be redeemed by Jesus –or if not redeemed perhaps remediated). There may be some people who persist in some immoral behavior so tenaciously and severly that their souls may have to be destroyed partially and then have the elements of their souls reconstructed later –or their spirit somehow redeemed without the soul ..(perhaps serial killers and such might be included in such a prospect) .
Thank Jesus for universalist theologians !
Here below I am posting two articles that make the case that the use of terms like ‘heresy’ and ‘heretic’ in the New Testament epistles–should NOT be interpreted in the broad way that many ultra-Fundamentalists do…
The case is made that since in the epistles of Paul , where words such as ‘heresies’ and ‘heretic’ appear in the text…nowhere does Paul state explictly which specific doctrines are to be considered heretical , and since the only place in the bible scriptures where there is anything close to a definition of “heresy” is in the epistle of 2 Peter, where the author refers to people , ‘denying the Lord that bought them’ and NOT to Christian Universalism , open theism , or every form of unusual doctrine , but specifically to denying the Lord…and so the broad accusations that such and such a doctrine is “heresy” (that many ultra-Fundamentalists like to cast around) are playing fast and loose with the text .
Furthermore, the doctrines of Fundamentalism are not on every point “orthodox Christianity” . True orothodox Christianity is more in keeping with the Eastern Orthodox sect—NOT the doctrines promoted by lousy theologians like John Calvin, Charles Spurgeon ect. Gregory of Nyssa and a number of the early church fathers supported universalism .
I see that some have posted words to the effect that they were going to pray that Carlton Pearson stop supporting universalism and support a fundamentalist outlook . That is disgusting !
In light of how Jesus taught that ‘it is more blessed to give than to receive’ and how that applies even to salvation , please do not pray that I become a fundamentalist. If it turns out that an ultra-Fundamentalist deity is running the universe (a different Deity than the Father of the Jesus who gave us the sermon on the mount)—then me becoming a fundamentalist and going to a fundamentalist heaven while other people (even nice people) are being tortured endlessly for not praying a Christian prayer prior to bodily death ..I would regard as a worse state of affairs than me being sent to a hell of fire and brimstone . It would be outrageously selfish for me to go to a fundamentalist sort of heaven —if there are people being tortured for an endless period of years .
If an ultra-Fundamentalist wants to send people to a fire and brimstone hell (or “allow” them to go there) where people are endlessly tortured —even nice people—then I’d just as soon rather try to persuade such a deity to to torture me instead *in the fire brimstone forever , rather than them and let the other people out of such a hell. If such an ultra-Fundamentalist deity maintains that such persons who have died without converting to Christianity are unworthy of heaven because of their sin or belief , then they could still be let out of that hell and sent to some other place that is *neither heaven nor a painfull variety of hell —that does not have any of the pleasures of heaven and yet does not have the pain and sufferring of hell—a neutral place of endless tedious boredom , or embarassment maybe .
Those ultra-fundamentalsits who would be disappointed in Jesus, if Jesus eventually saved everyone, remind one of the weird atitude by the people in ther parable of the laborers in the vineyard who were disappointed that the people who were hired at the last hour were given the same wage as those who worked all day long and endured the heat of the day .
THE PERILS OF HUNTING SO-CALLED HERESY [Part 1 ]
In this present era especially , there is a lot of talk in some sectarian groups–especially Fundamentalist protestant groups and in some anti-progressive factions of Catholicism about so-called “heresy” and “heretics” . What’s odd is that in some of these religious factions –especially Fundamentalist factions to label some notions “heretical” apparently because these notions seem way too exotic or way too unusual , even though some of the beliefs supported by such Fundamentalist pundits and theologians were, at one time in history, themselves called “heresy” by many of the other earler dominant churches when these religious movements, to which these Fundamentalists belong, emerged .
An example: the practice of the Baptist denomination to baptize people as adults when they had made more of an inquiry into what Baptism meant about 3 or 4 centuries ago –when the Baptist sect was young–was condemmed as a heresy by the earlier dominant church denominationsin Europe.
It is also quite hazy as to whether a lot of the hunters who object to so-called heresy have any fixed criteria for deciding if some notion is heresy or not. Calvinists and those factions of Arminian /Protestants who believe in free will (and are ALSO fundamentalists) tend to regard the doctrines promoted by each other as alternative forms of Christianity –the Calvinists disagree with Arminian doctrine and vice versa (but with perhaps a few odd exceptions) don’t call each other heretics, yet might call other doctrines so-called “heresies” like open theism (to give an example) or say elements of the Charismatic movement -to give another example .
Jesus in the gospels never uses the word ‘heresy’ . Jesus denounces some people for being NON-consistent.. having internal contradictions in beliefs and attitudes, and/or for being petty , superficial , venal /greedy, NOT for having some exotic theology ! Though Jesus is fond of pointing out internal inconsistency in the beliefs that some people express , he does NOT in the gospels show any desire to support some doctrinal ” correctness” as any goal for its own sake .
Jesus criticizes the false prophets not for teaching unusual doctrine , but instead for fostering unethical conduct . The difference between a true prophet and a false prophet was a true prophet produced good fruits and false prophet bad fruits .
St.Paul uses the term ‘heretic’ in the epistle to Titus , but does NOT define a list of doctrines that make a person a heretic or make up ‘heresy’. Thus it is presumptuous to claim support from St.Paul for the broad use of the term ‘heresy’ that many Fundamentalists and some factions of Catholics like to bandy around .
The only time the word ‘heresies’ gets anything almost like a definition is when in the New Testament epistle called 2 Peter chapter 2 verse 2 which describes heresy as ‘denying the Lord that bought them’, and NOT in the broad sense that the word ‘heresy’ is used today. Thus, according to 2 Peter chapter 2 verse 2, the term ‘heresies’ specifically refers to denying the Lord. It does NOT in that verse have a broad application of applying to each and every exotic or unusual doctrine or belief .
In the book of Revelation, there is a particular doctrine that is villified called ‘the doctrine of the Nicolotaines’ (Revelation 2:15) . However, according to many of the early church fathers like Iranaeaus , the doctrine of the Nicolataines was rejected and opposed by the author of Revelation out of an objection that was more basic , inasmuch as the Nicolaitaines were anti-nomians (i.e. hedonists) of a sort who espoused wild sexual promiscuity and also eating foods set aside to be devoted to polytheistic pagan idols . Hence, the opposition in the book of Revelation was NOT based on some sort of doctrinal groupthink which sought to reject notions because they were too exotic–but, instead, out of ethical objections having to do more with personal conduct and also a disapproval of accepting polytheistic practices .
It is interesting to note that in Phillipians I :15-18, St. Paul acknowleges that those in the Christian community which were against Paul as leader were, nonetheless, preaching the same Jesus and rejoiced in that they were doing so .
THE PERILS OF HUNTING SO-CALLED HERESY [part 2]
NOTE: The following article is taken from an exchange which took place about 3 years ago on a Myspace forum— regarding the interpretation of bible verses sometimes claimed in support of a rather broad and loose interpretation of the term “heresy” —with the phrasing of the original comments I posted edited for better phrasing with some addenta .
Other Person in The Debate : Don’t forget the anathema declaration in Gal. ch. 1. It pretty much sums up the concept of a “different gospel”. Paul is asserting his apostalic authority against heresy, particularly those calling for circumcision. We are also exorted to take a stand for the faith once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 3). Being a “saint” or an “apostle” has lead to extreme views of control and credal formulae, but the idea of heresy is definitely applied by the apostles, church fathers, and those who rebelled against them.
THE RESPONSE : Actually it is dubious that the references to a different gospel or ‘another Jesus’ in Galatians refer broadly to any doctine that is unusual or very exotic , as many ultra- fundamentalists might claim . The reference to ‘another Jesus’ or “another gospel” could have very well referred to someone proclaiming another man other than Jesus is messiah . As you point out, the letter of Paul to the Galatians was particularly concerned with those factions of the early Christian community who attempted to promote the belief that one HAD to be circumcized or one could not be a follower of Jesus –a belief that Paul rejects in Galatians
To claim that the part that warns against following another gospel applies to every belief that is considered exotic or novel is a broad interpretation that is NOT warranted by the explicit wording of the verses in Galatians !
In Galatians, the primary opponents that Paul addresses are the faction of the early Christian community that promote circumcision as a requirement for being a follower of Jesus , to apply that warning to any exotic doctrine (as many Fundamentalists often do these days) is conjecture and goes beyond the explicit words of the text . The basic concern of the gospel that Paul was promoting was salvation from sin by the grace of the sacrifice of Jesus–and not by the doing of ritualistic works like circumcision .
(Paul, elsewhere in other epistles like Phillipians, takes a more ecumenical approach, accepting those in the Christian movement who disputed him on some matters of doctrine as still preaching the same jesus and serving the same God even though they disagreed with Paul strongly) .
Take, for example, those in Phillipians chapter :1 verses 14-18 who Paul reports were against his leadership .
In Phillipians 1:16 , Paul
‘ The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds ‘
Notice that Paul refers to these people as preaching Christ ‘of contention ‘ –contention apparently towards Paul himself rejecting the authority of Paul as a leader . And yet Paul believes that these same people who reject the authority Paul as a leader were preaching the same Jesus as he was . He even rejoices that these people that reject the authority of Paul as a leader are preaching Jesus .
In Phillipians 1:18 Paul writes,
‘What then?nothwithstanding , every way, whether in pretense, or in truth, Christ is preached; and therein I do rejoice, and will rejoice ‘.
That Paul has authority as an apostolic leader was a marginal doctrine that Paul promotes –even in one epistle writing to the community where he states ,
‘be ye followers of me as I am of Christ’ .
And yet Paul does NOT emphasize the doctrine of himself having authority as being as important a doctrine as say , the resurrection and atonement of Jesus . Furthermore, he is willing to rejoice when those that disagree with his authority still preach Jesus (as in Phillipians) and does NOT refer to them as “heretics” nor does he claim they are preaching a ‘different gospel’ .
Paul in another letter Romans chapters 14 verses 1-6 he accepts those in the ‘christian community’ that follow the holy days and dietary rules (apparently of Judaism ) as serving God JUST AS MUCH as those who claim that under grace they are free from such dietary rules –thus allowing for an ecumenical approach in regard to that area of doctrine .In Romans 14:5 he wrote ,
‘let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind ‘ .
You , sir, mentioned the church fathers .
Apparently many of the people who have studied the writings of the Church fathers –have come to the conclusion that the primary factions that the New Testament letters warn about false doctrines were the legalizers and the anti-nomian factions . The legalizers taught that the ceremonial law (and NOT just the moral law) of the first 5 Mosaic books were required for being a follower of Jesus . It is the legalizers to which Paul addresses in Galatians .
The anti-nomians, in contrast, promoted the belief that because Jesus had presented God’s grace (instead of mere ceremonial law) as a means of relating to God, that it was somehow then okay to throw away the moral law as well and engage in wild sex -even extramarital sex and wild hedonism without much restraint on conduct .
It is the anti-nomians that are alluded to apparently in some of the writings of the very early church fathers . That sheds apparent light on the warnings in the epistle called Jude about ungodly men ‘turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness’ and in the New Testament epistle 2 Peter, of “false teachers” –as well as the warnings against the warnings in the epistle of 2 Timothy about those that “will not endure sound doctrine” and have “itching ears” and be ‘turned unto fables’ . It is the anti-nomain factions –sexual perverts and those that forbid marriage that 2 Timothy warns about –NOT anyone that has an unusual doctrine –NOT open theists, charismatics ect .
Hence 2 Timothy 3:6 describes people who ,
“creep into houses and lead captive silly women captive with sins , led away with divers lusts. ” .
1 Timothy also warns against those who forbid others to marry .(see 1 Timothy 4 :3)
Apparently the verse in the book of Revelation also that warns against , ‘the doctrine of the Nicolaitans’ (Revelation 2:15) is, according to church fathers like Iraneaus , directed at the anti-nomians that had been followers of a man named Nicolas. He apparently had advocated liberated sex and going to feasts devoted to polytheistic idols (aka to commit fornication and eat things sacrificed to idols) .
Thus, much of the concern about false doctrines can be more plausibly interpreted as being about doctrines by legalizing factions and factions of the early church that promoted sexual immorality and hedonism —and NOT about exotic theology (that so many of the fundamentalist heresy hunters are against) .
It is indeed bizarre that many Fundamentalists, Calvinists and so on try and apply such warnings about ‘heresy’ and give them broad interpretation towards theological doctrines and beliefs they find exotic (such as open theism .open theism,. by the way, is more in keeping with the concept of God in Judaism as being open to dialectic with created beings . And Jesus is very Jewish ) .
Jesus in the gospels when he speaks of false prophets uses a moral criteria and NOT a criteria of “doctrinal correctness” as a means of explaining how you can tell true prophets from false prophets . In Matthew 7:18 he teaches,
‘a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit ‘.
Jesus in the gospels takes a very ecumenical approach –accepting some of those who chose to remain outside the community of his own apostles as still serving the kingdom of God . In Mark 9:38 John tells Jesus that there was one casting out devils in his name and how he and the other disciples ‘forbade him for he followeth not us’.
Jesus then told him in the next verse , forbid him not’ and in Mark 9:40 added ,
‘He that is not against us is on our part’ .
Jesus in the gospels did NOT say anything to support the heresy hunting that many Fundamentalists support at all .
In Matthew 25: verses 31-46 , the criteria that Jesus said would separate the blessed from the accursed was NOT any doctrinal theological “correctness” for its own sake, but instead whether or not a person showed kindness to those who he called ‘the least of his bretheren’ . The ultimate criteria according to Jesus that separated the sheep from the goats was NOT whether they believed in doctrines like baptism by immersion , the impassibility of God , the authority of the apostles, the protestant canon , total depravity , or any of the doctrines that Calvinists and other Fundamentalists allege to be such paramount doctrines , but instead whether they fed, gave drink, clothed, welcomed , visited those that Jesus called ‘the least of the bretheren ‘ .
That is NOT to say that Matthew 25 taught redemption by works , but rather that Jesus taught that following him and God involved making a conscious effort to show kindness to the destitute out of a pure principle of charity — and also NOT expecting any reward for doing so .
Note that in Matthew 25:37-40 , the people who Jesus calls blessed are apparently suprised they served Jesus in helping the least of the brethren . They ask questions like ‘when did we you hungry and give you something to eat ?, when saw you a stranger and take you in? ‘ et al.
Are these questions that Jesus predicts the blessed people will ask in Matthew 25 rhetorical questions or earnest questions ?
If they are earnest questions then that suggests that these people (which Jesus calls blessed) do these acts of charity *without expecting any reward for doing so at all , but do so to serve a principle of kindness towards the unfortunate . That further indicates that a person having the “heart” (disposition) directed toward kindness to the unfortunate is more important a criteria to Jesus than doctrinal correctness when such doctrinal “correctness” is conceived apart from the more purely ethical considerations .
The irony is that the people in the story of Matthew who give unto the least of the bretheren did so , not to avoid some unpleasant torture in some hell nor to gain litertalized rewards in some paradise but did so sheerly out of kindness ..charity , for after all they did not fully realize that by feeding , visiting , giving shelter to the least of the believers in Jesus they were indirectly giving to Jesus too .
In the New Testament epistle called I John sums up what is most important in terms of the teaching of Jesus that the epistle calls ‘his commandments’ .
‘ And this is his commandment that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as he gave us commandment ‘.
Thus, in the epistle called I John, the basic tenet of belief is indeed a very basic tenet and believing the gospel is NOT equated with a lengthy list of doctrinally correct beliefs that heresy hunting sectarians claim !
J.
Excellent letters and points. Bishop Pearson should, one can argue, be proud to be called a heretic. They called Jesus a heretic, they called Paul a heretic. That’s pretty good company. I have no idea why fundamentalist are soooo concerned thate veryone agree with them. Paul sure wasn’t. Read Romans. “One man consideer sone day more holy then another…one man’s faith allows him to eat anyhting, another mans faith allows him to eat only vegetables. The one whose faith is strong should not look down on those whose faith is weak.” I’m paraphrasing, as I am doing this off the top of my head, but clearly, Paul did not thibk that to be a Christian required fuill agreement. Nor did he say “These are the issues that we must agree on, and here’s a list of less important ones.” There’s believing in Jesus,and believing He was ressurected. Hell, Satan, Baptism, tounges, eschatology, etc…all pretty darn unimportant.
I am not moved by pastor Carlton Pearson stating that Satan does not exist. Had I not experienced an event similar to his in 1997, I would see things differently. I know too much about what I know to really see the pastor beyond the reach of the hands of God. Against all odds, God brought me back. My mind was gone, for the devil became God and God became the devil. It took twelve years for me to see God for who who is again. Satan is wise, and when the bible says he is a deceiver. Please, do not take that lightly; he locked me up for twleve years. The enemy looks for doors or entrance points. We all have them, but some of us have exposed areas that grant him easy access. As a little child, Carlton basked in the love of his grandfather who was a COGIC minister. When the pastor backslid and died as an alcoholic, according to Carlton, it devastated him. From that time to now, he has been inundated with thoughts of his grandfather being in Hell. One day while sitting in a chair and watching poor starved Africans, he said to himself, “how can God allow these poor people who have suffered so much to go to Hell?” A voice immediately said to him, “so that is what you think I am going to do.” Carleton entertained the voice, which was actually a strong demon. He was supposed to try the spirit to see if it be of God. One thing led to another and the full manifestation of a deceving spirit took root. Very few Christians really know how to effectively discern and fight principalities; it is not just a little demon anymore. I totally believe that God will one day restore him to his right mind. Like Carleton, the pain of the moment overshaodowed me, and the visuals were overwhelming. I too did not and could not question the voices, for the whole experience was beyond human. The devil knew that I was at the lowest point in my life when he came in like a flood. I was caught totally off gaurd and did not have time to allow God to build up a standard against him. Because of destiny, God will one day put Carleton and your loved ones that are (beyond help) back on the right path. God is raising up mighty counselors who will be able to see into the spirit world and fight the good fight effectively. Like cock roaches, once a spirit is exposed it can be destroyed. Know this, there is a level of demonic attack that is untold, but God has an army within an army that will minister to oppressed saints and set them free. I am not moved by what Carleton says or does. I am moved by what I know is true, for I am a personal testimony.
I love Carlton Pearson but he’s wrong! I believe everything happen for a reason and Carlton will be restored back to God. Bottom Line!
I believe strongly that God is going to give pastor Pearson a revelation of both Hell and Heaven. It matters not the level of his deception; the enemy cannot stop God from revealing what is in store for those who refuse to believe on him.
He will come back much stronger, but those who truly rejected him in (the Church) will be the first ones in his face.
Believing in universal salvation Mr.Lacey does NOT make one “of the devil”, nor does mean that one is demonically inspired .
Granted one hopes (and I hope) that he would stay with the purely Christian universalism , instead of embracing some of the self-help movement /new age thinking that he has recently somewhat moved towards .
But if you are praying for him to become a fundamentalist again , please don’t. Jesus of Nazareth who rebuked his own disciples in Luke when they asked him to call down fire from heaven on the Samaritans who refuse to receive him and give him lodging, was certainly NO fundamentalist !
Jesus disavowed the eye for an eye teaching , saying , ‘You have heard it said unto you , an eye for an eye , but I say unto you …’
Lest you should cite the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke as if it were somehow a prooftext for a place of irreversible torment , consider an alternative interpretation .Consider that the story of the rich man who goes to Hades and the poor beggar named Lazarus was designed by Jesus how in the Kingdom of God that Jesus hoped to see set up on Earth , the poor would be shown to be most cherished by God and the corrupt rich would see that they were NO longer ruling on Earth . Think of how the epistle of James speaks in figurative terms about the fate of the greedy rich ,
‘Go and howl ye rich men , your gold and silver is cankered and the rust shall eat your flesh like it were fire .’
The notion that the story of the rich man and Lazarus reveals what actually happened in the afterlife, is quite far fetched , when one considers that if a person literally had an after death body and IF it was literally completely on fire would someone whose whole body was on fire merely ask for their toungue to be cooled ?
The word in the original Greek text of the story of the rich man and Lazarus that is “translated” in many English bibles as “tormented” is apparently the same word that is in other verses in the gospels translated as ‘sorrowful’ . So was the rich man in the story of the rich man and Lazarus ‘sorrowful in this flame’ or ‘tormented in the flame.’ ?
The story of the rich man and Lazarus is apparently very similar to an earlier story in the Jewish Talmud about a rich tax collector and a poor Torah student …where there is a reversal of fortunes also and the rich man in that story finds himself forever over and over trying to reach out and drink a stream which receeds away when he tries to drink it , where as the poor man finds himself in a paradise .
Fundamentalism looks more to the teachings of Augustine of Hippo,John Calvin , Charles Spurgeon , J.N. Darby , Francis Schaeffer .
The teachings of Jesus are far better , far more wise then the teachings of those men !
Here below is a copy of a an essay I posted on another forum that mentions how Moses presented arguments to God in Exodus not to go through with the [tenative] plan to destroy the Israelites, when he witnessed them worshipping the golden calf in the wilderness , and persuaded God to not go through with the planned destruction. If Moses interceeded and persuaded God to not go through with fostering a grim state of affairs for the wayward Israelites in the Sinai , there is a precedent on how God could be persuaded by polite , reasonable argument to reverse some punitive judgement . Thus, the thesis of the essay (I’d like to post below) is that if God was persuaded by argument to reverse a judgement against the Israelites, it is then plausible that God might be persuaded by the prayers and intercession of Christians to let people out of whatever “hell ” they may have been dammed to and send them somewhere else.
Even if that somewhere else is some sort of neutral place which has neither the privations of hell nor the rewards of heaven .
______________________________________________________
MOSES AS A PRECEDENT
In Exodus 32:7-14 and Numbers 24:11-30, Moses presents respectful arguments to Yahweh (God) for God NOT to go ahead with an apparently tenative plan to destroy the Isrealites after the Isrealites had severely offended their Lord . According to both texts God is evidently persuaded by the arguments presented by Moses and does NOT go ahead with the announced plan to destroy or disinherit the Israelites .
Moses thus interceeds on the behalf of these people who have severely offended God and persuades God to show them mercy / grant them clemency .
THE QUESTION WHICH WE OUGHT TO ASK IS :
If it is a good act for Moses to interceed on behalf of those in Old Testament times who had offended him and to try to persuade God grant them some sort of pardon —wouldn’t it behoove us to take an approach in the spirit of Moses and ask God to pardon the souls of whatever atheists and sinners might be in “hell” and have Jesus redeem those souls out of hell –or at least give them remediation –if not full redemption so that they may be taken to another place than a “hell” ?
After all , a person doesn’t have to be Moses to adopt the example of interceeding on behalf of the fallen and /or unbelieving , that Moses adopted .
According to the book of Revelation, Jesus has the keys to death and hell (or Hades —to use the apparent word in the original Greek) . A key can be used to unlock as well as lock in .
Many Fundamentalists like to quote Hebrews 9:27 that reads , ‘It is appointed unto men once to die and after that cometh judgement’ , yet here with the case of Moses interceeding on behalf of the Isrealites we have a case of a Divine Judgement being reversed by someone presenting RESPECTFUL to God arguments on behalf of the other people .
(It is interesting to note , by the way, that Hebrews 9:27 does NOT state that the judgement takes place immediately after death —it reads after but it does NOT read “immediately after” . It is also interesting when unpacking the concept of divine Judgement in the Bible that Isaiah 1:27 refers to judgement as having a redeeming and NOT just punitive role , ‘Zion shall be redeemed with judgement ‘) .
Perhaps, as the Isrealites were shown clemency by Moses interceeding on the behalf of those unbeliving Israelites, perhaps the souls of atheists and sinful hedonists who are in a “hell” might be shown clemency by us who are Christians asking God to send Jesus to let them out of such a realm of damnation ?
Devil took advantage of Brother Carlson’s love and concern for the people. He nearly did it to me too, but God showed me clearly that He will have mercy to whom He will have mercy. Most probably, almost all the people Carlson was worried about would be going to heaven. God judges by the heart. God knows the heart regardless of what state or religion one is in. Now, if someone clearly presented JESUS to a person and God convicted the person but the person still denied Him (JESUS), then that could be a different story. The person may end up in hell. God knows exactly how He judges people who have not heard about Jesus well. God is infinitely SMARTER THAN ALL people AND MORE MERCIFUL THAN ALL! If God clearly told a homosexual or any other sinner that what he or she is doing is bad/ungodly and the person rejects the warning from the Lord, that person is in real trouble and danger of hellfire. Carlson got carried away. In fact, he may need to understand that even his grandfather may be in heaven. God will heve mercy to whom He will have mercy. The grandfather had worked for God many years and God is very merciful not to allow him to be stolen by the devil. That drinking and the ridicule it brought were part of his punishments on earth for whatever he may have done. Many a time God allows His servants who backslid to suffer in this world instead of throwing them into hell. Most of the time God allowed sinners to keep enjoying themselves in this world because they will be going to hell for eternity. God knows what He is doing! HE KNOWS!!! HE KNOWS!!! HE IS EXTREMELY LOVING!!! He even showed me that my father who had abused my mother through adulterous lifestyle was in heaven based on me doing what He (God) told me to do on behalf of my father during my mother’s funeral. God had told me to make sure I told the thousands of people that my dad killed my mother because of his adulterous lifestyle which caused him not to pay needed attention to my mother. I did it in the presence of my father and numerous people. That was how beautiful God is. My father spent most of his last days praying the rosery (catholic) and onto God. God knows what He is doing. He judges you according to what you know. God judges us according to how much we know. AGAIN, God judges us according to how much we know. Do not be surprised if many muslims who were doing their best to serve God in their own way (according to what they know) go to heaven if they have not heard about Jesus Christ. God speaks to and deals with everyone. He gave us conscience. AGAIN, God judges us according to how much we know of Him. The difference is that those who know Him well enjoy life better (deal with the world better). Those who do not know Him suffer a lot. They may go to heaven, but they have been cheated in this world because they did not get the opportunity to hear and then accept Jesus as the Bible taught and then deal with the world’s problems with Jesus as the Helper. But, listen carefully–God knows their hearts. Only God can judge! Remember–God will have mercy to whom He will have mercy.
Akaolisa has the right attitude and insight. Those of you who called him the anti-Christ, was he the anti Christ before Satan deceived him? Will he be the anti-Christ after God gives him a revelation of Hell and bring him to his senses? Satan went after him very hard because he was the ONLY one doing it right. Most high profiled TV evangelists do not have a deep scriptural foundation with any religious affiliation. This man was raised as stable as one can be in The Church of God in Christ. Due to a “hurt” that he did not close the door on, the devil was able to get in.
Wow, I just heard about this stuff 2 days ago. I remember he had such a good heart and loved Jesus. Lord, touch Reverend Pearson’s mind and restore him to You…. to know Your presence… to know You.
Fill him with Your light and love.
We bless him and thank You for rescuing his life and ministry. In Jesus name, Amen.
Wow, I just heard about this stuff 2 days ago. I remember he had such a good heart and loved Jesus–KELLY
RESPONSE: How do you know Kelley , that he doesn’t still love Jesus ?
How do you know that Reverend Pearson doesn’t love Jesus more than the eternal torment doctrines taught by Fundamentalist and Calvinist preachers like Calvin, or Charles Spurgeon , or Jerry Fallwell, or whoever wrote some book ofthe so-called “divine Revelation of Hell ” ect ?
A lot of the literalistic hellfire thinking breeds an outlook more like the pharisees and hardly anything like Jesus .
but God showed me clearly that He will have mercy to whom He will have mercy–akaolisa .
Dear akaolisa ,
Might the people who are the subjects of he will have mercy of those whom He will have mercy–be eventually everyone ?
After all, St.Paul in Romans 11:32 when referring to the Jews and Gentiles wrote ,
‘he hath concluded them all in unbelief so he might have mercy upon them all ‘.
Would not the word ‘all’ in that verse eventually apply in some sense to every person in the Jewish and Gentile categories ?
Granted some people might be remediated rather than fully redeemed.
Hence the reference to , ‘Fear him that can destroy the body but not the soul /fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell’
Could be that some souls might be so corrupted that they might have to be broken down into their component elements, however , if a person has an individual spirit , separate from their soul , perhaps the spirit of a corrupted person –such as unrepentant serial killers and blasphemers ect might have their spirit redeemed even if their soul is not ….
The prospect of some *other * person like my Grandparents or Carlton Perason’s grandparents going to a place of endless anguish be that anguish spiritual or physical , is far more disturbing than mself going there .
I’d rather have myself tormented for eternity than my grandparents or Carlton Pearson’s Granaprents. After all,Jesus taught it is more blessed to give than to receive . That would apply even to eternal life .
Fundamentalists sometimes claim that it would somehow taint heaven to have an unbeliever or “unsaved” person let in , so then even if one accepts that premise —why not send them to some other place a neutral place that has neither the suffering and privation of hell, nor the pleasures of heaven …say a place of bland comfort where they could be bored for all eternity as a punishment, *instead* of tormented ?
Another factor to consider is that though the epistle of the Hebrews does state that it ‘is appointed unto men to die and after cometh judgement ‘, it does NOT state that immediately after death cometh judgement . There is NO “immediately” in that verse .
Furthermore, the verse does NOT rule out the possibility of Jesus redeeming someone while they are in the process of being judged .
FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT,THIS MEANS PHYSICALLY AS WELL AS MENTALLY. JUDGE HE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED,YET STAND AND DECLARE THAT JESUS IS THAT JESUS WHO DIED AND ROSE. MY STRUGGLE IS THIS, IF SATAN DOES NOT EXIST,THEN WHO WAS JESUS SPEAKING TO WHEN HE REJECTED OFFERS TO GAIN WEALTH AND LAND,AND THROW HEMSELF OFF THE MOUNTAIN TO SHOW THAT HE WAS IN FACT JESUS,AND THEN TOLD A CERTAIN SPIRIT TO GET THEE HENCE BEHIND HIM. I AM CONVINCED THAT THAT CERTAIN SPIRIT WAS SATAN. ALL WE CAN DO FOR THE BISHOP IS PRAY AND BELEIVE THAT HE WILL BE CHANGED BY THE RENEWING OF HIS MIND.REMEMBER THAT GODLY PRAYER IS STRONGER THAN EVIL INFLUENCES.
A foolish person would focus more on someone else’s soul and neglect.If you can read this response, you are not in heaven yet. This means that you have to make sure that you are saved and not left behind. It is not enough to quote scripture of how Chirst died for you and that you know that you are saved. Try quoting, if you offend part of the law that you are guilty of it all. This means anything less than holiness results in Hell! Pastor Pearson has a good heart. He is in a spirit of Error, but do what Jesus would do and pray.My prayer for him is for God to give him a revelation of Hell. Since he does not believe that it exists, he will come back stronger than ever. I love this man; so many (ministers) were so glad he fell. Even in the Church of God and Christ, he had haters. Folk are folk, and some did not feel comfortable with his success.
I grew up in San Diego, CA, and remember Bishop Pearson, when he was just ‘Carlton Pearson’ as well as his parents and siblings. Coming from a musically talented and anointed family, I was always blessed to hear him, sing or share the gospel of Jesus. He along with his family was Bible-believing. When I first heard Bishop Pearson talk about the Gospel of Inclusion, I was totally shocked and disappointed because, what he was promoting and preaching was totally contrary to the Word of God that he had preached for so many years. Today, he is adamant about this ‘universal gospel and his current opinion that Satan does not exist. When did he cease to exist and where was Satan, when the Bishop believed in the unadulterated gospel of Jesus Christ? The book of beginnings – Genesis introduces Satan as the Serpent that was instrumental in the fall of Adam and Eve. The book of Isaiah 14-12-15 tells us about the fall of Lucifer/Satan. His objective continues to be that all people not believe that he exists. We are warned in the Scriptures to watch and pray, to abide in the Vine- Jesus and to let His Word abide in us. The Word of God continues to speak life and the truth to whosoever will believe, whosoever has an ear to hear and the heart to receive. God never changes and is the same yesterday, today and forever. Mankind changes, but God does not nor does His Word change. THE WORD THAT WAS TRUE WHEN BISHOP PEARSON PREACHED IT IS STILL TRUE TODAY, ALTHOUGH HE HAS CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT GOD’S WORD THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. WHAT CHANGED OVER THE YEARS WAS THE DESIRE OF THE BISHOP’S HEART. There are many voices in the world today trying to sway us from the right to the left–getting us to leave the path of righteousness for a metaphysical, universal and demonic consciousness that will only lead to an eternity without God. ‘Whenever we stray, we are never tempted by God, but we are drawn away, enticed and baited by our own evil desire (lust, passions).’ “Then the evil desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully matured brings forth death.” James 1:14-15 AMP). God loves all mankind– there is no question, but whether we love Him is dependent on our obedience to Him and His Word. HOW CAN A PERSON SAY HE OR SHE LOVES GOD– YET DOES NOT BELIEVE ALL OF GOD’S WORD (THE BIBLE)? The Bible is not just a ‘good book.’ It is God-breathed and contains words of life (2 Tim. 3:16-17). Let’s offer fervent, effectual prayers for Bishop Pearson. God loves Him and is not willing that any should perish but come unto REPENTANCE. What some people don’t realize is that if we don’t elect to believe in Jesus (John 3;16) and accept God and His Word, we leave ourselves open to Satan by default. God will never force anyone to accept Jesus but, we must willingly (and not by default or proxy) accept God’s gift of eternal life by opening our hearts and surrendering our lives to the Lord. This is the only way to receive His gift of eternal life and avoid an eternity without Him in hell with Satan and his demons.
Sister Sellers, if you grew up knowing the family and know that they have a strong foundation then you equally know that God does not invest in a soul just to leave him/her when they need him most. In fact, God is not as easily evicted as the Church teaches. As a tenant, he is a slow mover. In this case, he sees Bro. Pearson’s heart not his mouth. Whatever was placed in Pastor Pearson is still there. The real problem lies with the Church. We preach about the devil but really do not know his works. Satan comes in at will and snatches the best of the flock. We full gospel folk are so busy beating up on wounded saints that we forget to take authority against the power of darkness in them. Out of Pearson’s own mouth, he told how he became deceived. When that strong delusional demon came to him and spoke, he simply assumed that it was God. As one pastor put it, “sometimes Satan sounds more like God than God.” Had he asked the question, “Are you of God and has Jesus come in the flesh?” That demon would have denied Christ, and he would have known. Instead, he was so consumed about the whereabout of the soul of his grandfather (which you might know) that he started a conversation with the enemy. From there, it only got worse. The devil is not stupid; he knows that we all have weaknesses. Carlton’s weakness was a childhood obession with his grandfather being in Hell(so he thinks). This obsession turned into a deep hurt and opened up a window in his soul whereby a deceiving spirit could enter. I do believe that God (in his mercy) will show him the very place he says does not exist-”Hell.” I believe Pastor Pearson will be stronger and more powerful the next time around.
The most recent postings about Bishop Pearson suggest that he is the anti-Christ. I don’t believe that he is ‘the anti-Christ’ although; he might be anti-Christ in light of the perverted gospel he has been propagating. Also, there is a strong possibility that he has committed the unpardonable sin: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31). That is insulting the person of the Holy Spirit – the third person of the Trinity and His power, role and work before God.
I am late in doing so, but I would like to address a comment I received from S. Lacey last year in November. I would only like to respond to his final statement in which he said; “I do believe that God (in his mercy) will show him (Bishop Pearson) the very place he says does not exist- “Hell.” I believe Pastor Pearson will be stronger and more powerful the next time around.”
Bro. Lacey, you are correct in saying that God will show or allow Bishop Pearson to see hell and find out that it’s real, but unless he REPENTS of his sin, he will end up in hell and it won’t be due to God’s mercy but His judgment. I say that because of what the Word of God says in reference to what Bishop Pearson is preaching (his ‘inclusion gospel.’) The Apostle Paul wrote to the churches at Galatia and said: “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ACCURSED. As we said before, so say I now again. If ANY MAN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed [Accursed in Greek -an-ath'-em-ah -refers to a person or thing doomed to destruction]. (Galatians 1:8-9) In response to the statement about Bishop Pearson being stronger and more powerful the next time around, I share this scripture from 2 Peter 2:21: “For it had been BETTER for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.”
I know that as long as we are in these houses of clay, we will be tempted and sometimes one can even backslide, but those who do fall still CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IN the Word of God even if they are not living a life of holiness before the Lord.
Let us watch, fast, pray and stay in the Word of God, so the Word will be in us. King David said that he hid God’s Word in his heart, so that he would not sin against God. “Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.” (Proverbs 4:23)
In closing I leave you with this scripture verse: “There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” (Proverbs 16:25)
In Christ Alone,
Victoria Sellers
Atlanta, GA
Seems that J is Rev Pearson himself or a close associate writing on his behalf. True?
Be sincere and tell me.
I would like to address both Andreas and Bro. J:
Andreas, unfortunately, Bro. J is really Bishop Pearson, because he does not possess the same knowledge of God’s Word. He could on the other hand be a sympathizer (at best).
Bro. J, you sound like a very misguided man, who is totally uninformed about the promises and the divine will of God. I would like to address a couple of your statement, because you should know the truth!
Bro. J: Jesus gave the ‘supreme’ sacrifice and paid the price for mankind to be REDEEMED AND RECONCILED back to God. “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.“ (1 Peter 2:24). God gave Jesus as His gift to the world and all we have to do is believe on Him and receive His gift of eternal life (heaven).(John 3:16-18) We have been redeemed from the curse of the law. ‘If we believe on Jesus, we shall not perish, but we believe not, we are damned for our unbelief.’
Bro. J:
I don’t know who you consider to be ‘fundamentalists,’ but, from the beginning of time, man was given freewill. Although, Adam and Eve walked and talked with God in the Garden of Eden and He even instructed them on how they should conduct themselves in the garden (they had parameters to walk in), they chose to disobey Him and listen to the devil. The devil is still trying to seduce mankind today to go his own way and disobey God, because he (the devil) knows he is defeated and wants all of mankind to perish along with him. God is pleased with our faith and obedience to Him. Each day, we have the opportunity through our choices to choose life or death, blessing or cursing; our decisions determine whether we live with Him in this life and next or apart from Him — now and for eternity. God is a holy and expects His children to be holy in our lifestyle (Christian walk). (1 Peter 1:15-16) God will not violate His laws to accommodate those, who choose to disregard Him, His Son and His sacrifice, His Spirit and His Word and still expect to go to heaven.
The following scripture is clear about, who will go to hell: “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable , and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” (Revelations 21:8)
Bro. J, God does not want us to live in fear, which comes from the devil, but has given us a spirit of power and of love and of a sound mind. (2 Timothy 1:7).
Be about the Word of God: study to show yourself approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15) and like David –hide His Word in your heart so you won’t sin against God. (Psalm 119:11)
Watch and pray, so you won’t fall into temptation. (Matthew 26:41). If you know the truth, the truth will set you free. (John 8:32)
In Christ Alone,
Victoria
Atlanta, GA
Anndreas,
I meant that J is NOT REALLY Bishop Pearson, because he lacks skill and knowledge of the Word of God.
I did catch this error.
Victoria
Hello Everybody, I’m very excited to find so many of you in this forum. I have read all of the comments that have been made and I must say that a lot of you don’t know what you’re talking about. There are a few of you that understand what’s going on and I must say that you are indeed but a few. Most people walk on this Earth afraid. They are afraid of Satan/Devil. They, like many people including some of you who are in this forum, have been made to believe that there is a nasty fallen angel who is running amok on the earth causing problems for everyone. Let me ask you people a question, the last time that one of you did something bad, was there an extraterrestrial being with you telling you to do bad things? Here is another question, What exactly have you seen this Satan do that you can actually attribute it to this being? One more question, the bible clearly teaches that there is only one God ‘deuteronomy 6:4′ so why do you people continue to believe that there is a little god(Satan) battling the one and only true God? The only thing that you people really need to worry about is yourselves. For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly come from. All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean’ Mark 7:20-23
One more thing, next time that you guys see this Satan dude, have it come see me. Thanks, Ciao.
Hello Arthur, I have addressed your comments below. Your statements are marked with two asterisks (**) and my reply or comments follows your question or comment.
After reading your message, it is apparent that you lack understanding of the Word of God and thereby you are open to the lies and confusion of the very devil you mock and question. You have the nerve to judge those participants in this forum, but your message is a blatant display of your personal ignorance and conceit!
Arthur A. Cevallos says:
March 19, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Hello Everybody, I’m very excited to find so many of you in this forum. I have read all of the comments that have been made and I must say that a lot of you don’t know what you’re talking about. There are a few of you that understand what’s going on and I must say that you are indeed but a few. Most people walk on this Earth afraid. They are afraid of Satan/Devil.
**They, like many people including some of you who are in this forum, have been made to believe that there is a nasty fallen angel who is running amok on the earth causing problems for everyone.
Your statements above display your conceit and ignorance about the devil so I will take the liberty to give you the information you seem to be lacking from the Bible: Isaiah 14:12 KJV – “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! “
What’s sad is that you are judging individuals in this forum, so I am going to judge you with God’s Word, of which you seem to ignorant. Perhaps you think Satan or the devil is a joke, so you are mocking those believers, who choose to know the enemy of God. The devil was defeated at the cross of Calvary. 1 Peter 5:8 KJV – “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour; “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” (James 4:7 KJV)
**Let me ask you people a question, the last time that one of you did something bad, was there an extraterrestrial being with you telling you to do bad things? What planet are you on? The Bible does not call the devil an extraterrestrial being. The devil is the ruler of darkness and is joined with principalities of spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:11-12) Adam and Eve gave the dominion and power that God had given them in the Garden of Eden to the serpent (or devil). The earth belongs to God (Psalm 24:1)
**Here is another question, what exactly have you seen this Satan do that you can actually attribute it to this being? One more question, the bible clearly teaches that there is only one God ‘Deuteronomy 6:4′ so why do you people continue to believe that there is a little god (Satan) battling the one and only true God? I don’t know about the others in this forum, but there is nothing in Scripture or in my mind that considers the devil or Satan to be a little god. His activity in the world has an expiration date and he know that his eternal home is the lake of fire or hell, so he is working hard to cause men, women and children on the earth to deny the existence of God and/or reject the sacrifice of Jesus.
**The only thing that you people really need to worry about is yourselves. Arthur, this is bad advice, because believers in Jesus need not worry about anything or anyone: “Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. If you do this, you will experience God’s peace, which is far more wonderful than the human mind can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 4:6-7 NLT)
**For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly come from. All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean’ Mark 7:20-23. You have taken this verse out of the context in which Jesus was speaking. Jesus made this statement to the Pharisees and scribes, because they complained to Him about the disciples not washing their hands before eating. I suggest read the entire chapter to get understand. Please know that all deeds good or evil start with our thoughts (as a man thinks in his heart, so is he). Where the mind goes the man follows. What you are doing today is a result of what you think about (give attention to). Proverbs 23:7 KJV – “For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.”
**One more thing, next time that you guys see this Satan dude, have it come see me. You think you can tango with this Satan, he’ll take you up on your invitation and chew you up and spit you out. You are no match for the devil and apart from God, you can DO NOTHING!
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. 3 You have already been pruned for greater fruitfulness by the message I have given you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you; for a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine and you cannot be fruitful apart from me. 5 “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” (John 15: 1-6 NLT)
In closing, I would recommend that you follow the advice below that the Apostle Paul gave to Timothy: 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV – “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.”
Thanks, Ciao.
Hello Victoria Sellers,
I want to thank you very much for replying to my posting. The very first words that you mentioned were “it is apparent that you lack understanding of the Word of God”.
Well let’s go over the Word of God and see if I really lack understanding. You took the liberty to give me information that I seem to be lacking and you gave me one of the most famous quotes that people like yourself use to explain that there is a Satan/Devil, the verse from the book of Isaiah 14:12 and you believe that the morning star that they are talking about must be the Devil.
Well Victoria I hate to disappoint you, but I believe that If you took the time to read the entire chapter, you will come to the very same conclusion that hundreds of Scholars have, that this chapter is talking about the King of Babylon. Here I’ll give you an example:
1 The LORD will have compassion on Jacob;
once again he will choose Israel
and will settle them in their own land.
Aliens will join them
and unite with the house of Jacob.
2 Nations will take them
and bring them to their own place.
And the house of Israel will possess the nations
as menservants and maidservants in the LORD’s land.
They will make captives of their captors
and rule over their oppressors.
3 On the day the LORD gives you relief from suffering and turmoil and cruel bondage, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury [a] has ended!
You see Victoria the whole chapter 14 is about Babylon and it’s King and how Babylon’s King thought be a God himself, but Babylon was defeated and so was their King.
You also mention that “The devil was defeated at the cross of Calvary”. Well Victoria if the Devil was already defeated at the cross of Calvary, we really don’t have anything to fear, do we?
Victoria, sometimes the original words of the Bible text are left untranslated (“Mammon”, in Mt. 6:24, is an Aramaic example of this). As a word, ‘satan’ is an untranslated Hebrew word which means ‘adversary’, while ‘devil’ is a translation of the Greek word ‘diabolos’ meaning a liar, an enemy or false accuser.
Victoria, you said “I don’t know about the others in this forum, but there is nothing in Scripture or in my mind that considers the devil or Satan to be a little god”, well if he is not a little god then what is it? Let’s see, he’s able to be everywhere, he’s able to appear in different centuries, he appears in different countries, he’s omnipresent, he was able to go back and forth from earth to heaven and he’s also invisible. It sounds to me like this Satan guy has a lot of powers. He’s not like us, is he? You said that you don’t consider this Satan to be a little god, so why are you so afraid of him?
You said “The devil is the ruler of darkness…(Ephesians 6:11-12) and that is not correct, this is what it says “11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.”. you see, nothing here about Satan being the ruler of darkness. And let’s say that he was the Ruler of Darkness, this would make him some sort of little god, right? I mean, he looks like he has enough power to battle with the Ancient of Days. He’s been battling with God for thousands of years now.
So he is working hard to cause men, women and children on the earth to deny the existence of God and/or reject the sacrifice of Jesus. How exactly is this non-god working hard to cause these things to happen. Do you have hard evidence that he’s actually in some cave figuring out the schemes that he’s going to use to deceive people.
Victoria, don’t you think that evil comes from peoples heart. It is written in the book of Genesis 8:21 that man’s “every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood” Now, if we are in fact evil from childhood, why would we need a satan to help us do evil when we are naturally disposed to commit evil from childhood.
Please learn and understand what the meaning of the words satan and devil are and how they are used in the bible. Go to Wikipedia and get an accurate understand of those words, that will go a long way in helping you realize that all this time you’ve been thinking that this adjective(adversary) was actually a noun(Satan).
One more thing, with regards to Mark 7:20-23 you said “You have taken this verse out of the context in which Jesus was speaking. Jesus made this statement to the Pharisees and scribes, because they complained to Him about the disciples not washing their hands before eating”, So what are you saying? Are you saying that this only applies to the Pharisees and Scribes? This does not apply to all man? Read carefully “23All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean.’ “. It does not say it just makes the Pharisees and Scribes unclean, it says “All these evils come from inside and make a man unclean”. By the way, what do you mean I’ve taken this verse out of context? In what context do you want me to read it?
Victoria, the only Satan/Devil that you will ever find will be in the mirror or in somebody else’s face, because satan/devil is just an adversary, accuser, liar. Now go look up the word satan and devil in Wikipedia and I hope to hear from you soon. I see that there is plenty more that I need to show you so that you understand that there is no non-god running around with all this power at his disposal causing havoc and bringing pain and sorrow to people.
Ciao.
Hello Arthur,
You are welcome for addressing your message and I thank you for responding so quickly. Before I make a few comments, I must apologize to you for my comment about your lack of understanding the Word of God. I was wrong to judge you regardless of what you stated in your previous email. I have addressed those issues that were most important to me and choose not to comment on your responses/rebuttals.
You made a statement that suggests you consider Satan to be a ‘little god.’ Jesus says in John, Chapter 10 that he is a thief, who comes to kill, steal and destroy, but I have not read in Scripture or heard from any Bible scholar that Satan is considered a ‘little god,’ although, he might consider himself to be. The powers that Satan possesses were allowed by God. Omnipotence is a characteristic that is only reserved for God alone. “How, biblically, should we think of God’s omnipresence? The word means that God knows exhaustively, and upholds and touches continually, every single item in the universe he has made, from the tiniest genes and electrons to the most massive stars in the expanding universe to the most complex mind-body interactions in the psyche of over 6 billion people. God is here, there, and everywhere, and his mind and hand are on everything. We are never out of his sight (Psalm 139), and we cannot get away from him (John 1). Wherever we are, he is there too. This is not simply a matter of transcending spatial confines. Strictly speaking, God has no spatial location at all, for space belongs to the created order and exists in him rather than he in it. Such is the omnipresence of God.”
**You mentioned the following: (Satan) “he’s able to be everywhere, he’s able to appear in different centuries, he appears in different countries, he’s omnipresent, he was able to go back and forth from earth to heaven and he’s also invisible. It sounds to me like this Satan guy has a lot of powers. He’s not like us, is he?” I provide the following quote in answer to your question: “But Satan is a rebel and corrupt. He leads the angels who, according to 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6–7, are now under restraint in “dungeons” and “chains” and face the judgment of eternal fire for their sins (Matthew 25:41). These fallen angels, whose character is set in the mold of their first transgression as later Adam’s would be, are called demons in the New Testament. God restrains them to limit what they can do, but their hostility toward God and the godly has no limits. Wrecking God’s work, thwarting his grace, and bringing us to spiritual ruin is their common goal with Satan. He tempts many people simultaneously—does that mean he is omnipresent? No. Omnipresence, as we saw, is unique to the Creator. Satan comes and goes (Matthew 4:3, 11; Job 1:7–12). So how does he manage these multiple temptations? Scripture does not say, but two theories are common. Theory one, recognizing that all angels have powers beyond ours to move around and see into people, posits that Satan has the power of “multipresence”—not “omnipresence,” but not as spatially limited as humans.”
Because, I said that I don’t consider Satan to be a ‘little god,’ why did you assume that I am afraid of Satan? My faith and trust is in God and He is greater than the devil. Also the Bible outlines the destiny of this defeated foe.
Arthur, I do believe that evil comes from people’s heart.
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:19 KJV) Unless we are transformed by the renewing of our minds with the Word of God, our hearts will continue to be deceitful and wicked. If we put good things in our hearts/minds, our mouths will speak good things and we will do good deeds. (“. . . for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.” Matthew 12:34b KJV) Most importantly, if you renew your mind: “you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is.” (Romans 12:2b NLT)
Arthur, I don’t believe there is anything else that you can show me about Satan. I will continue to believe what the Bible says: He is a fallen angel with demonic power and the enemy of God. He tempted Jesus, when He was led in the wilderness (Matthew, chapter 4). When Jesus went to Calvary, He took the keys to death, hell and the grave. He also gave back to believers the spiritual power, authority and dominion that Adam gave to the serpent when Eve was tempted in the Garden of Eden. I will give no place to the devil but, will submit myself to God, RESIST the devil and he will flee. (James 4:7; Ephesians 4:27),
In closing, I would like to say that we can debate until the cows come home and will probably never agree on the topic of this forum, because there is a great likelihood that we are not walking on the same path. ‘Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” (Amos 3:3 KJV) Sometimes, people must agree to disagree. I would rather spend my time leading lost souls to Christ than to waste precious time debating the existence of the devil, whose destiny has been prophesied in Revelations: “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Revelations 20:10 KJV)
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14 KJV)
In Christ Alone,
Victoria Sellers
Hello Victoria,
I’m very happy to hear from you. I was not offended in any way by your previous comments, so an apology is not in order, but since you have offered it, I will accept it. Thank you.
In my last statements, I gave advice with regards to looking up the words ‘satan’ and ‘devil’ in Wikipedia or any other medium that gives you definition of words, did you do that?
Did you find out what those words mean?
Victoria, let’s go back in time.
When YHWH (Yahweh), The Mighty-One, revealed Himself to Moses and had Moses write the Torah, (first five books of the Bible) there was not one single mention of an evil angel named Satan, or evil angels, or for that matter any being that could tempt you in your mind to Transgress the law! In fact the main point of the Torah is to proclaim that there is only one Mighty-One, and that one Mighty-One is “YHWH (Yahweh),” (Ex.20: 2-3,) “I am YHWH (Yahweh) your Mighty-One, which has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other mighty one before Me.” (Deut.4:35-39) Unto you it was shown, that you might know that YHWH (Yahweh), He is the Almighty, there is none else beside Him. Know therefore this day, and consider it in your mind, that YHWH (Yahweh) He is the Almighty in heaven above and upon earth beneath: there is none else.”
You will say, I believe in the one true Mighty-One, but what does that have to do with my belief in Satan? Just this, “Satan” as portrayed by many of the Modern Christian Churches of the world, by all reasonable accounts, must also be classed as a Mighty-One.
You said that I made statements that suggests that I consider satan to be a “little god” and I must say that you are misquoting me. What I said is that you(many of you that are in this forum) are making this satan fellow to be some sort of little god by giving him super human powers, I don’t consider this satan to be anything but an allegory.
OK Let’s review those powers:
First of all, you appear to teach that Satan is omnipresent, meaning (able to be everywhere at once) “Satan” you say, is here tempting you and me on this side of the world, but at the same time is tempting everybody else all over the rest of the world! You believe Satan and his army of evil angels are everywhere tempting every person in the world to follow their evil ways! So you must believe that he or they are tempting more than five billion people every minute of every day! It is certain no humans could do that!
But you say, “Satan is a fallen angel.” Well let’s examine that for a moment. The Scriptures speak of angels (messengers) in several places, but in each and every one of those places there is no indication of “omnipresence.” In each instance a messenger could only be in one place at one time.
For example, in the book of Daniel an angel (messenger) was to deliver a message to Daniel, but he was delayed for 21 days and he could not come to Daniel because he had to stay with the kings of Persia. (Dan.10:10-14). “And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. And he said to me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto you, and stand upright: for unto you am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. Then said he unto me, fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that you did set your heart to understand, and to chasten yourself before YHWH (Yahweh), your words were heard, and I am come for your words. But the king of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Now I come (21 days later) to make you understand what shall befall your people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.”
So we see neither man nor angels (heavenly messengers) have the power to be in more than one place at a time! That leaves only one category, the category of Mighty-One! Since the Scriptures teach us there is only one Mighty-One, and that One is YHWH (Yahweh), there is absolutely no room for the false belief in an evil angel, a Mighty-One, called “Satan.”
But you say, I don’t call Satan a Mighty-One or a little god. No you are not saying it, but you are attributing powers, that only a Mighty-One or little god has, to this satan guy.
Why then, do the scriptures refer to a being called Satan? This is not a difficult question. The scriptures were originally written in Hebrew (the Old Covenant) and in the Greek (the New Covenant). The Hebrew word meaning “adversary” or “accuser” or “opponent” is saw-tawn. This Hebrew word should have been translated into English as “adversary,” “the adversary,” “an adversary,” “accuser,” “the accuser,” or “opponent,” “the opponent.” In the Greek Scriptures, the Hebrew word is transliterated into “Sa-tan” with the same exact meaning as the Hebrew. The Hebrew meaning would have been the correct and proper way to translate from one language to another, (render the word as to its meaning in the other language). However, in many cases (but not all) the translators chose to transliterate “saw-tawn” simply meaning adversary, as satan, and then changing the word into a name by using a capital “S” thus the word “saw-tawn” which means “adversary, accuser, or opponent” was turned into a proper name!
Saw-tawn in Hebrew and in the Greek is not a proper name! It is simply a word that means adversary, accuser, or opponent! It is not that the translators did not know what they were doing. For example, in the King James Version they rendered the word correctly in a few places see I Sam.29:4; II Sam.19:22; I kings 5:4; and 11:14,23,25.
Among those books of the Hebrew Scriptures written before 300 BCE, the term “satan” (root word “s’tn”) appears often:
Any person acting as an accuser or enemy. For example:
1 Samuel 29:4: The Philistines were distrustful of David, fearing that he would be a satan. (translated “adversary” or “someone who will turn against us”).
2 Samuel 19:22: Shime-i apologizes to King David. The King rejects the apology, saying that they should not be a satan to each other (translated “adversary” or “opponent”).
1 Kings 5:4: King Solomon is talking to Hiram, the King of Tyre. He says that now that there is neither satan nor bad luck to stop him, he can build the Temple. (translated as “adversary”, “enemy”, or “one who opposes”).
1 Kings 11:14: God raised up Hadad the Edomite as a satan against Solomon. (translated as “adversary,” or “opponent”).
A divine messenger sent by God as an adversary:
Numbers 22:22 & 32: God appears in a dream, telling Balaam to go with the princes of Moab to meet Balak. But when Balaam sets out the next morning on his donkey, God is angry with him for some reason, and sent an angel/messenger to kill him. The donkey saw the angel and took evasive actions. The angel was invisible to Balaam, who beat the animal. The donkey asked Balaam why he had beat her three times. Balaam, who doesn’t seem to realize that a talking donkey is an unusual occurrence, replies. The angel then appears and explains that he has come as a satan to kill him. (translated as “one who opposes, “withstand,” “adversary”)
a member of God’s inner council; a type of chief prosecutor of Heaven:
1 Chronicles 21:1: Satan, “a supernatural evil emissary,” acting on God’s behalf, has influenced David to hold a census. The census is taken, and God is angry for an unknown reason. Perhaps God does not want humans to be aware of the strength of the army. God then offers David his choice of one of three punishments: a 3 year famine, 3 months of fleeing before his enemies’ armies, or a plague throughout Israel. David selects the plague and God killed 70,000 men (and presumably a similar number of women and many tens of thousands of children).
In 2 Samuel 24, the identical event is described. However, this time, the text states that God influenced David to hold the census. Even though God had incited David to enumerate the men of Israel and Judah, he was still angry that it was done and punished the Israelites with a plague.
The writings in 2 Samuel are believed to be the original account; 1 Chronicles came later. It is believed that when Samuel was finally edited (circa 560 BCE), the editors thought that all supernatural actions (good and bad) came from God. When Chronicles was written over a century later, (circa 400 BCE) the author viewed God as operating indirectly through his helpers.
Job 1 and 2: Satan is described as one of the members of the court of heaven. God mentions that he is impressed at the behavior of Job, a blameless man who has lived an upright life. Satan attributes Job’s commendable behavior to his good fortune and says that Job would soon curse God if he had a string of really bad luck. God decides to conduct an experiment with Job; he instructs Satan to destroy all that Job has: kill his animals, murder his employees, and murder his innocent children. But, even after these disasters, Job still does not curse God. So God instructs Satan to up the ante by returning to earth and destroying Job’s health.
Here, Satan is portrayed as a servant of God whose task it is to dutifully carry out evil deeds at God’s instruction.
Zechariah 3:1-7: Satan is again portrayed as a member of God’s council. Here he objects to the selection of Joshua as the high priest.
Victoria, this is where you are wrong, you said that you don’t believe that there is anything else that I can show you about satan. I just finished giving you more information than you’ve ever known about this subject.
Now go and review all these references. Read each chapter and see exactly what it is saying. After reading these books and chapters you will begin to see that perhaps this satan word is being used as some sort of adjective and not a noun.
By reading the books of the Hebrew Scriptures, you will come to the conclusion that this Mighty-One is all alone and there has never been an opposition (except for the false gods that Israel and now the rest of the world have created).
There is no debating going on yet because you have yet to provide any evidence within the Hebrew scripture of a being known as satan battling the all Mighty-One. The only piece of evidence that you’ve suggested with regards to my question about the powers that this satan seems to have is the following , you said ” I provide the following quote in answer to your question: “But Satan is a rebel and corrupt. He leads the angels who, according to 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6–7, are now under restraint in “dungeons” and “chains” and face the judgment of eternal fire for their sins (Matthew 25:41).
Victoria, if “satan leads the angels who, according to 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6–7, are now under restraint in “dungeons” and “chains” how can they be running around causing havoc? You yourself said that they are in “dungeons” and “chains”. And if this is true, why is it that satan is not in this “dungeons” and “chains”? I thought that satan is the leader of these angels, so he too must have been punished just like the rest of the angels that have been put into “dungeons” and “chains” or is it because of these powers that God allows him to have, that he is able to move about. How about his demon friends, are they also able to move about from “dungeons” and “chains” into our everyday lives? They must be able to too, because you believe that satan and his fellow fallen angels (the demons) are causing trouble for the world.
You said “The powers that Satan possesses were allowed by God” . Really? Where in the scriptures does it say that God is allowing this being to also possess some type of power?
I’m very interested to read where you found that statement. Please find the answer for this question.
With regards to 2 peter and Jude, that’s for another day because there is plenty of information that you are missing with regards to what these two books are talking about.
Victoria, please read all the references that I gave you. Also, please go and find out the meaning of these(satan/devil) words. Find out if they are actually an adjective or a noun. Let me know what you’ve found out.
When you reply, let me know if you have done all these things ‘cause if you don’t, then you really don’t want to learn.
By the way, you are afraid otherwise you would not be seeking a higher power to help you keep this bad guy away from you. I don’t need any help because I know and soon you will too know, that there is no invisible being with some limited power that God allows him to have, causing havoc and mischief around the world.
Ciao
Hello Victoria,
I forgot to ask you two more things:
1) you did not elaborate on how I should read the text from Mark 7:20-23. You said that I took this verse out of text. Can you please provide me an explanation of what this verse actually means?
and by the way, here is another verse that maybe you can help me so that I don’t take it out of context James 1:14-15
“but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”
2) Did you read the entire chapter of Isaiah 14, be honest, does it talk about the King of Babylon or is it talking about an actual being called Lucifer(which I’m guessing is another name for satan).
Ok, I will be looking forward to our next chit chat.
Thanks,
Bye.
AC
Preach on Brother Carlton. Jesus had to go up against doubters too. With my whole heart~ Toni
Truth be told, I dont espouse a belief in God or Satan. Both are man-made creations having 2 different purposes aimed at consoling and controlling the weak of our society. Pearson needs to get out of the church ministry altogether so that he can enjoy a normal life (e.g., women, wine, partying, & bling, etc.). Those Pentecostals are hypocrites, man. Trust me, their church members brought “fornication” back. They do more “screwin” than a carpenter. Pleez. . .
Right on Brothers! Toni and Marcus, I’m very happy to read comments like yours. You both understand that their is no being running around creating problems for people in this world. therefore, I know that you both are enjoying life and not walking this earth afraid of some being called “satan” and then having to go to church so that they can help you keep satan away from you(by the way, it’s not free for them to help keep satan away from you, you have to give them 10% of your earning). Both of you understand that “out of men’s hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly”. That’s right all these evils come from inside and make a man unclean, they don’t come from some being who is making you kill or have sex with whores or rob someone at gun point. All those evil things come from inside YOU.
People get with it, it is our own desire for the things that the world offers that leads us to sin, not some idiot idol, created by a bunch of other idiots, that is causing us to sin.
People remember this when tempted, no one should say, “GOD is tempting me” for GOD cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone, but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Now, let’s hear from other brothers who have done some research and have come to this very simple conclusion, that satan(this word is an adjective in hebrew, but now has been made a noun) is man made! simple as that, just like santa claus.
Is there someone out there who would like to speak on behalf of satan? anyone care to let me know why they believe that this dude is alive and healthy and kicking it with the honeys in malibu?
Jesus spoke to Peter and told him, “Satan desires to sift you as wheat but I have prayed for you that your faith fail not.” (Luke 22:31) Jesus was tempted of Satan after He fasted in the wilderness for 40 days.(Luke 4:1-13) When the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, Satan also came. (Job 2:1) “Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke you.” (Jude 1:9)
Jesus speaking to the Pharisees said,”You are of your father, the devil and the lusts of your father you will do.He was a murderer from the beginning, and stayed not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44) “The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.”(I John 3:8)
Satan Does Exist!!! He existed before as Lucifer. (Ezekiel 28, also see Isaiah 14:12, Revelation 12)He was the highest angel in rank. He was responsible for being the worship leader of the angelic host. His beauty was perfect and flawless until iniquity was found in his heart. Because of his pride, he rebelled against God seeking to exalt himself above God and His rule. He was so cunning and crafty that he deceived a third of the angelic host into rebelling against God with him. Now the scripture says “And I beheld Satan fall from heaven as lightning. Behold, I give to you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.” (Luke 10:18&19)
I think that by these great assembly of witnesses, let this word be established to you. The Deceiver, the accuser of the brethren does exist and for a professed minister of the Gospel to say that he doesn’t exist is to call Jesus,the way the truth and the life, a liar.
Theology that contends against scripture is FALSE DOCTRINE. Don’t be deceived by the vain pernicious ways of false teachers and prophets filling themselves and their sinful flesh and desires as they make merchandise of the scriptures for filthy lucre. They forever are in corrupt and perverse communication and they lie in wait to deceive the hearts of men. These scoffers, these wolves in sheep’s clothing will receive unto themselves the just recompense of their ways if they do not repent for this spirit of delusion that they are enabling to ensnare the minds of people. For God shall bring every work unto judgment and every hidden thing whether good or evil. The Lord searches the heart and tests the mind, and He will give every man according to His ways and according to the things which He has done. For thus saith the Lord, “Vengeance is mine and I shall repay.” For all of us who look down upon Carlton Pearson for this….I pray that the Lord removes the self righteousness and pride away from our hearts so that we are not judged according to our judgment of others. We have all offended God and are unworthy of His Grace bestowed. We are made in unity by the circumcision of the Spirit that works peace unto salvation. Be reconciled to God, For God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him,we might become the righteousness of God. Grace and peace be with you all! Amen
And I sought for a man among them, that should build up the wall, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it’ EZEKIEL 22: 30 According to that verse God, looked for someone to present respectful arguments unto him to turn away punishment from those who God disapproved of .
Shouldn’t we try to persuade the God, who runs the universe to let people OUT, of a place of endless punishment and transfer them —if not to a heaven then to a palce that has neither the privations of hell nor the benefits of heaven …maybe a place of endless tedious boredom as an alternate punishement ?
Mr. Lacey Posted :A foolish person would focus more on someone else’s soul and neglect..
Well then Mr.Lacey you disagree with Jesus who taught ‘it is more blessed to give than to receive.’.
If I were to claim the prospect of myself being dammed more tragic than the prospect of other people being dammed that would be selfish . Altrusim is central to the sermon on the Mount by Jesus .
Consider that Moses in Exodus 32:32 demonstrated an unselfish Christlike love in wanting his own name to be blotted out of the Lord’s book if forgiveness was not shown to the Israelites who sinned .
Stephen in the book of Acts when rocks are being thrown at him ,m prays that the Lord may ‘lay not this sin to their charge’ . He seeks a self -denying altruistic desire that mercy be shown .
If I ever became one of those fundamentalists who would be totally okay with the prospect of people being endlessly tortured in the afterlife , then the worry is that becoming one of those people who thinks ,”Well I am one of the saved ones , but unfortunately those other people who did not make an explicit Christian confession prior to physical death are the “unsaved” people going to an endless hell of torture” …THEN THE TEMPTATION might come to be like the pharisee in the parable of the pharisee and the publican in LUKE 18:9-14 .
no I do NOT work for Reverend Pearson…I just maintain it is weird , bizarre to claim that brother Pearson is a “heretic” or works for the devil because he believes in universal salvation . Granted I have some disagreements with Revb Pearson alos, insamuch as I would like him to move back more towards a Christian universalism …for I fear that there are *some* elements of new age thinking that he has recently espoused …and that is different from classical Christian universalism .
I do disagree with the statement attributed to him that ‘the closest you get to God is you’ .
However, Christian univesalism is NOT a heresy . Nowwhere does the bible call universalism a heresy and neither did the early church fathers .
Moses persuaded God to show mercy to the Israelites in Exodus 32 …if God can be persuaded to show mercy to the living why not continually try to persuade him to show mercy unto the dead ? The early christian martys like Perpetua offerred up prayers for the dead —including those who died without becoming Christians …Why shouldn’t we ?
Because some fundamentalist preacher tells us not to ? The teachings of Jesus are far more profound and worthwhile than that of fundamentalists preachers and apologists …..
IF there is an actual being called Satan and Satan is not an allegorical figure like some maintain…then we should hope and pray that Satan repents ! If Satan has free will …then it is possible that Satan could repent .
Mr.Cevallos Posted :
‘Job 1 and 2: Satan is described as one of the members of the court of heaven. God mentions that he is impressed at the behavior of Job, a blameless man who has lived an upright life. Satan attributes Job’s commendable behavior to his good fortune and says that Job would soon curse God if he had a string of really bad luck. God decides to conduct an experiment with Job; he instructs Satan to destroy all that Job has: kill his animals, murder his employees, and murder his innocent children. But, even after these disasters, Job still does not curse God. So God instructs Satan to up the ante by returning to earth and destroying Job’s health.’
RESPONSE: If the Job account is not an allegory , but an actual account of what happened between God and Satan and a man named Job then it makes more sense given the Virtue of Yahweh that Yahweh (God) allowed Satan to test Job so that Job would be made ashamed …guilty by the steadfast loyalty of Job and that MIGHT INDUCE SATAN TO REPENT .
The idea that God used Job as a mere pawn in a contest with Satan to score some sort of win against Satan in some sort of game…is blasphemous . God is above such contests …at least the God who taught , thou shall love thy neighbor ‘ and the God who sent Jesus to give us the Sermon On The Mount is above engaging in competive games with Satan to show Satan that he has greater power . Why would God feel some sort of need to show that he is more powerful than Satan ? God / Yahweh is infinitely greater and more magnificent than one who would feel the need to get in some sort of contest with His adversary to showcase power to Satan .
It makes more sense to think that Yahweh who is noble , ethically perfect …who taught love for the strangers in your midst …and according to Jesus is kind even unto the unthankful (see LUKE 6:35) was hoping that the virtue of loyalty shown by Job would encourage Satan to repent …to stop going about the universe doing bad and call it quits …
The story of Satan tempting Adam and Eve in the Genesis narrative —regardless of where and what Eden was …makes more sense to interpret as being also a case where God was hoping Satan to repent (and let us lay aside questions of whether Satan might be allegorical for a moment) .
Giving the premise that God is committed to ethical goodness , it makes more sense to think that God would have allowed Satan to get Adam and Eve to transgress ONLY if God was hoping that the possible future would have manifested on wherefore Adam and Eve refused to give into temptation and refused the forbidden fruit , so that Satan would be made ashamed by Adam and Eve making a virtuous refusal of temptation and that Satan would be so moved by shame as to permanently quit trying to cause problems and be some how reformed .
NICK POSTED : “Theology that contends against scripture is FALSE DOCTRINE. Don’t be deceived by the vain pernicious ways of false teachers and prophets filling themselves and their sinful flesh and desires as they make merchandise of the scriptures for filthy lucre.”
RESPONSE :
Nick do you know what the phrase ‘filthy lucre’ refers to ? It refers to
money -grubbing …getting enormous monetary gain…getting rich financially off of religion .
It is the pursuit of monetary gain …greed under the guises of Christian religion along with vulgar uninhibited sexuality …hence the warnings against those who creep into houses ‘and lead women astray laden with diverse lusts’ …that the letters to Timothy and other pastoral epistles warn about when they refer to false teachers …NOT people who teach the prospect of universal salvation through Jesus …nOT people who have unusual sounding theology …
It is those who promote greed (filthy lucre)and liberated sexuality that those references to ‘false teachers’ in the letters to Timothy and other pastoral letters are addressed to …NOT Christian universalists , not open theists and so on .
Ironically it is the *filthy lucre*, under the usual banner of economic productivity and economic growth that so many fundamentalists affiliated with the secularized conservative movement that promotes corporate greed , are themselves promoting !!!
Reportedly , Reverend Pearson has recently disavowed and repented away from the prosperity gospel that he supported back when he was something of a funamentalist …and hence he has now rejected filthy lucre .
While he was still a fundamentalist in the prosperity gospel BACK THEN was when he supported the filthy lucre of the consumerist , wealth seeking , bourgeous goal of filthy lucre …Filthy lucre is keeeping up with the Joneses .
VICTORIA POSTED :Bro. Lacey, you are correct in saying that God will show or allow Bishop Pearson to see hell and find out that it’s real, but unless he REPENTS of his sin, he will end up in hell and it won’t be due to God’s mercy but His judgment. I say that because of what the Word of God says in reference to what Bishop Pearson is preaching (his ‘inclusion gospel.’) The Apostle Paul wrote to the churches at Galatia and said: “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ACCURSED
RESPONSE: You , ma;am, are interpreting that reference in Galatians to preaching another gospel very loosey and reading a lot of presuppositions into the text that are NOT explicitly there . Nowhere does St.Paul write that a gospel of inclusion or a belief that all can be eventually redeemed through Jesus is what he meant when he wrote of those who ‘preach another gospel.’
Since there were many people in that time who claimed to be the messiah sent by God…it is quite more plausible that whenb Paul in Galatians warns about another gospel that he is narrowly and specifically referring only to those who may have claimed that another person other than Jesus is the messiah …and NOT referring to Christian universalists who maintain Jesus will eventually save every person .
Much of the argumentation in Galatians is directed against those legalist factions of the early church that maintained that gentile converts to Christianity had to be circumcized in order to be disciples of Jesus…a doctrine that Paul rejected . You are giving the warning by Paul about another gospel a far more WIDE and BROAD application –when you attempt to re-apply it to Christian universalists and inclusionists —then the explicit subject matter of the verses in Galatians would warrant . You are taking liberty with the text of Galatians and reading into a lot of presuppositions of fundamentalist doctrine that are NOT spelled out in the text .
That is often done with the references in the letters to Paul about those who ‘preach another Jesus’ . Keep in mind that in Ist century Israel there were other Jewish men who had the name Jesus or Yeshua in Hebrew and the warning does NOT have to be interpreted as meaning someone who has a radically different doctrine about Jesus …as many fundamentalists often like to interpret it , but , instead , could more plausbly be interpreted to mean a warning against some group claiming another person named Jesus or Yeshua other than Jesus of Nazareth …is the messiah .And NOT a warning against Christian universalists or people who support liberal theology and so on …
Mrs.Sellers wrote ,
The following scripture is clear about, who will go to hell: “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable , and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” (Revelations 21:8)
Yet the second death you mention will not Jesus defeat that second death *for every person who has ever lived* as well along with all the other forms of “death” ?
The author of I CORINTHIANS 15:26 when describing all the enemies that Jesus will defeat , writes ,
‘The last enemy that will be defeated is death’ .
If people one day experience the second death , does I Corinthians 15:26 mean that Jesus will defeat the second death on behalf of *all* of the people who experience the second death ?
Will the victory of Jesus over death mentioned in I CORINTHIANS 15:26, mean that the second death will one day erased and the second death itself will then come to an end, when Jesus defeats death as the last enemy ?
J, if I didn’t know what the phrase “filthy lucre” meant I wouldn’t have used it. That’s pride. And I also would have expected you to adress the “weightier matters” of my comment. I agree with what you said but I’m not really sure as to where you stand on this issue. Carlton Pearson is, I don’t think, all of what I said about false prophets. I was simply just naming their characteristics according to scripture. And to respond to something you said in a previous comment, Yes. Satan was created with free will. Obviously, or he wouldn’t have been able to be persuaded by his own mind to be intentionally rebellious in a perfected state. Satan does exist and he does not want to repent. His pride has perverted his conscience to the point of no return. He CHOOSES to be God’s enemy and the despiser of every good work He performs. The second death is eternal separation from God. The first death was conquered when He rose from the dead. It says in Revelation that the time will come when death and hell will be cast in the lake of fire. If you look at death in the Biblical context, it often means separation from God. But after the Great White Throne Judgment that finally separates the wheat from the tare, there will be no more separation from God for those who are with Him in eternity future.
Hello Nick and also a quick shout out to J.
J I’m going to definitely respond to your comment, but give me a few days to finish reading and stop laughing at all the Mambo Jumbo that you posted, I’m not really sure where you stand. Just for the record J, are you also afraid of this satan dude? Do you believe in satan? watch out, he’s right behind you. Just kidding.
Nick I’ll be with you in a minute(a day or two).
By the way, I having a three way call with satan,as I’m typing, he’s asked me to personally thank you both on his behalf. He said that you both have been very good at helping to spread fear among the nations by making people believe that he exists. Keep up the good work. “what’s that satan? you have to go and bring death and destruction somewhere, OK, bye.”
O.K. he just hung up. satan asked that you both continue working on his behalf and keep promoting him as the champion of evil.
Excellent observations Mr. Or Mrs. DR ,
The fundamentalist heresy-hunting is quite weird indeed . Such weird bellyaching about Rev Pearson supposedly no longer being a Christian and being a so -called heretic and people praying for him to return to fundamentalism is quite disgusting and does remind one of the pharisees .
Here below is a text I have recopied that quotes the words of Jesus in JOHN 10:16 where he tells his disciples that he has ‘other sheep, which are not of this fold’ (other people who are somehow spiritually influenced by him even though they are of a different group than the group of the apostles)
Jesus informs his disciples in JOHN 10:16 that he already has sheep that are of a different group than them .
In John 10:16 he states ,
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
If Jesus already has sheep which are not of the same fold as the group of his disciples , why is it impossible that some of them would be people who do not convert to “Christianity as we know it in any official sense ” prior to physical death —perhaps even people who do not affilated with any religious tradition and yet are influenced by Jesus spiritually somehow .
Though the book of Acts teaches that Jesus is the ‘only name under heaven where men might be saved’ it does NOT say that only those who call on the name in this present life are the only ones who can be saved by the name . If infants who die …and mentally handicapped people who die without having the cognitive wherewithal to know how to convert to Christianity can be saved *through the name of Jesus* without explicitly calling on the name then why not say a hindu, or a Buddhist , or someone with no explicit religious affiliation at all ? Remember though many fundamentalists have proposed some mysterious so-called “age of accountability” for children nowhere do any of the verses of the Bible mention anything about “any age of accountability” nor does the Bible use any synonymous phrase . Fundamentalists who claim to base the doctrines they promote solely on scripture …sola scriptura have no basis for the “age of accountability ” notion anywhere in the Bible .
Though we as Christians do have a duty to conduct the great commission mentioned in Matthew to ‘Go teach all nations ” and I do NOT wish to suggest that we should think that any religion is as good as any other . I do strongly support missionary activity and encouraging people to confess Jesus as Lord and Savior and follow him in the here and now…the verse that says noone comes to the Father but by me does not necessarily have the exclusionary meaning that Fundamentalist/evangelicals tend to interpret it .
One could plausibly interpret the verse as meaning that sooner or later , on the way to the Father, a person must at some time go through Jesus .
Mr.Arthur Cevallos ,
Though, in recent years, I have been inclined to think that there is a fallen angelic entity named Satan , I’m still considering the prospect that Satan may be a symbolic allegorical figure, that symbolizes the energy towards evil in humanity (and or other sentient living things) .
I gather that you consider Satan to be an allegorical figure, rather than a fallen angel . I am willing to study any arguments you wish to present in favor of that thesis .
The truth of the divinity and the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and his Resurrection is NOT dependent on the belief that there is an actual fallen angel named Satan . The veracity of Jesus as messiah /savior and lord does NOT depend on Satan being actual . C.S. Lewis overrated theologian that he was.. did wisely note in the forward to the Screwtaper Letters (which was not the best book he wrote, by the way…the Narnia stories were more edifying), that though he did believe in devils …the central tenets of Christianity would still stand even if it turned out that there were no actual devils .
Perhaps the references to demons present some sort of figurative narrative for a fallen , bad dynamic of the soul …evil energies that take on almost an idependent ontological status …who knows ?
What I wanted to explore was some intriguing questions about the meaning behind the way fundamentalists think about such matters .
Interesting avenues of thought can be explored by saying to the fundamentalists ..allright lets presume for a moment the premise that there is an active fallen agent named Satan who is at work with his entourage of demons inciting people to sin , and is waiting and working to bring about at some date a literal historical figure called the Beast who will do terrible stuff like put a mark on people , behead martyrs and do all sorts of dastardly deeds ….well if such a being named Satan has free will …then couldn’t he then repent …decide to STOP doing all those bad activities and decide NOT to fulfil the bad activities predicted in Revelation and so on ? (Now let’s hold off for the time being on the preterist interpretation of books like Revelation ..which is a lot more plausible than the futurist —especially the premillenial dispensationalist interpretation ) .
Furthermore, I’d like to ask the fundamentalists ..shouldn’t we as Christians pray that Satan will repent /call it quits …stop inciting people to sin …decide to *never* sponsor any Beast or antichrist …and therefore leave the bad predictions in Revelation to be not fulfilled even though the good predictions we should still hope will be fulfilled ?
So much of fundamentalism —especially premillenial dispensationalism —depicts God as somehow being dependent on Satan doing bad actions in order supposedly for the agenda of God to be fulfilled …a notion which is quite incongrous , weird , bizarre .
I’ve observed some fundamentalists put forth the notion that if Satan never did the bad stuff predicted in the book of Revelation that humanity would not get the chance to see how the way of God is superior to the way of Satan …and that somehow the bad actions predicted of Satan like sponoring some BEAST /antichrist figure , and having a tribulation where people they refer to as “tribulation saints” are horribly subject to violence and persecution and an armageddon apocayptic battle is somehow necessary to show people that the way of Satan is inferior to the way of Satan .But that notion is very weird and untenable that people would require all that to know that the way of God is superior to the way of Satan …since the Spirit of God could convey to people directly the knowledge that the way of God is superior to the way of Satan —even if Satan *never* did the evil actions predicted in the books like supporting a Beast or anti-christ sending armies on horseback to fight in the valley of Megiddo and so on .
To claim that God requires Satan to do all those nasty things that the dispensational interpretation of Revelation predicts in order for people …to finally know that the way of God is superior to the way of Satan…makes God dependent on the bad deeds of Satan …and insinuates that God cannot convey knowlege of the right way through other means that don’t involve Satan .
Just some important reflections ..
Mr Cevallos, I do welcome the posts you post. It is good to see some people posting here that are looking into the matter of the Bible and Jesus more deeply than the fundamentalists do . I look forward to continuing the exchange of posts …
May Jesus (who was certainly NOT a fundamentalist) bless you , sir .
NICK POSTED :J, if I didn’t know what the phrase “filthy lucre” meant I wouldn’t have used it. That’s pride.
RESPONSE: Okay, well sir, I just wanted to clarify .
NICK POSTED :And I also would have expected you to adress the “weightier matters” of my comment. I agree with what you said but I’m not really sure as to where you stand on this issue. Carlton Pearson is, I don’t think, all of what I said about false prophets. I was simply just naming their characteristics according to scripture.
RESPONSE: Okay, I hope I didn’t misunderstand what you posted., I thought at first that you were disparaging him . There is so much weird bellyaching from fundamentalists accusing him of being a so-called “heretic” oir false teacher for believing in an eventual universal salvation . Though I would applaud Rev Pearson for supporting universalism …and I do not go along with those that call him a heretic …after all a number of the early church fathers were universalists like Gregory of Nyssa…recently there have been some elements of self-help movement almost new age sort of memes that have apparently been taken into some of the statements he has reportedly made …that I have reservations about …since though I am ANTI-fundamentalist ..I’m also against a lot of the new age /self help movement ideology also .
I would hope that he would be more in time affiliated with a classical Christian universalism …rather than the wholesale pluralism that some unfortunately conflate with universalism .
NICK POSTED: And to respond to something you said in a previous comment, Yes. Satan was created with free will. Obviously, or he wouldn’t have been able to be persuaded by his own mind to be intentionally rebellious in a perfected state. Satan does exist and he does not want to repent. His pride has perverted his conscience to the point of no return.
RESPONSE: But doesn’t God who can do all sorts of miraculous events have the ability to eventually …however, long it takes persuade Satan to *freely choose* to repent ?
Keep in mind , sir, that I am not asking if God has the ability to force Satan to call it quits …what *instead* I am asking is does God have the ability to persuade Satan to *freely choose* to call it quits …*freely decide* to stop doing the evil deeds permanently ?
You may, sir, as a counterargument affirm well Satan has already seared his conscience to being set in the ways of badness.. Well then the follow up question would be then …does God have the ability to UNsear the conscience of Satan ..even if the conscience of Satan is now seared ?
Shouldn’t we pray that God does persuade Satan to choose to repent and not do any evil actions that are predicted he would do ?
NICK POSTED :He CHOOSES to be God’s enemy and the despiser of every good work He performs. The second death is eternal separation from God. The first death was conquered when He rose from the dead. It says in Revelation that the time will come when death and hell will be cast in the lake of fire. If you look at death in the Biblical context, it often means separation from God. But after the Great White Throne Judgment that finally separates the wheat from the tare, there will be no more separation from God for those who are with Him in eternity future.
RESPONSE: But is it possible that Jesus might conquer the second death for those in the Lake of Fire as well ? That when the last enemy that Jesus defeats is death might that mean that Jesus will eventually defeat not only the first death , but defeat the second death for everyone as well ?
St.Paul in the letter to the Ephesians chapter 4 verse 10 expressed the fascinating hope that Jesus would
‘fill all things ‘ .
One Christian apologist I read claim that such meant merely ‘basic categories’ …but did not explain what the basic categories that he claimed the ‘all things’ referred to …
Might the phrase ‘all things’ that Paul (in Ephesians 4:10) expresses the hope that Christ might eventually fill …refer to every created entity one day being filled by Christ and hence , transformed by him ?
FIXING A TYPO
There is a sentence in the paragraph, taken from one of the posts I posted above , that has a typo …an accidental miscarriage of the sentence phrasing .
RESPONSE: If the Job account is not an allegory , but an actual account of what happened between God and Satan and a man named Job then it makes more sense given the Virtue of Yahweh that Yahweh (God) allowed Satan to test Job so that Job would be made ashamed …guilty by the steadfast loyalty of Job and that MIGHT INDUCE SATAN TO REPENT .
I had meant to type the phrase, ‘ then it makes more sense given the Virtue of Yahweh that Yahweh (God) allowed Satan to test Job so that *Satan* would be made ashamed….
THE TYPO HAD BEEN …
I had accidentally typed the phrase that went “… that Yahweh allowed Satan to test Job so that Job would be made ashamed ” .
FIXING ANOTHER TYPO
In the response to Mr Arthur Cevallos posted above on April 9 , there is another typo that I have to correct in the phrasing .
The following phrase appears in the text about two posts above ,
and that somehow the bad actions predicted of Satan like sponoring some BEAST /antichrist figure , and having a tribulation where people they refer to as “tribulation saints” are horribly subject to violence and persecution and an armageddon apocayptic battle is somehow necessary to show people that the way of Satan is inferior to the way of Satan .
The phrase ‘to show people that the way of Satan is inferior to the way of Satan ‘, was an accidental phrasing .
The phrase I had meant to type was ‘to show people that the way of *God* is superior to the way of Satan ‘…and the thesis I was trying to convey was that it was ridiculous to suppose that God would require Satan to do terrible acts predicted that Satan would do in order to show people that the way of God is superior to the way of Satan …
That the prediction of Satan doing terrible things… like sponsoring an antichrist / Beast …presuming such events have not yet happened in the past , but, instead, still pending ….would NOT be something that a Good God would desire …no more than a weather forecaster who is ethical would want the predictions of possible tornados to come to pass .
Furthemore, the notion that God would somehow require that Satan to sponsor a Beast one day who would unleash some tribulation period …so that people could see that the way of God is superior to the way of Satan …is a *ridiculous attempt at explanatio*n since it presupposes that God does not have other means of convincing people that the way of God is superior to the way of Satan …other than allowing Satan to do some evil deeds like sending an Beast to kill people ….
If God wants to persuade people that the way of Satan is bad then He would have other ways of doing that …which wouldn’t require Satan doing the evil actions predicted of Satan …